🌟 Materials Science behind Electric Cars with Anastasiia Mikheenkova: Episode 207 of Under the Microscope 🔬

What to Expect:

In this episode, Anastasiia Mikheenkova discusses her research on the aging process of batteries used in electric cars. Anastasiia shares her journey from studying chemistry in Ukraine to conducting battery research at Uppsala University, and her work on understanding the electrochemical and material changes that occur as batteries age.

About the Guest:

Anastasiia Mikheenkova is a PhD student at Uppsala University specializing in the chemistry of batteries. Her research focuses on understanding the electrochemical and material changes that occur as batteries age, aiming to enhance the lifespan and efficiency of batteries used in electric vehicles.

🌟 Key Takeaways from This Episode:

• Battery Aging: Anastasiia’s research focuses on understanding how batteries age and degrade over time.
• Career Journey: From studying chemistry in Ukraine to conducting battery research in Sweden.
• Favorite Experiment: Using scanning electron microscopy and X-ray diffraction to study aged battery materials.

🔬 In This Episode, We Cover:

Anastasiia’s Research Anastasiia’s research focuses on understanding the aging process of batteries used in electric cars. She studies the electrochemical and material changes that occur as batteries age, aiming to enhance their lifespan and efficiency. Her work involves testing batteries under various conditions to simulate aging and analyzing the results using advanced techniques.

Anastasiia’s Career Journey Anastasiia’s academic journey began with a Bachelor’s in Chemistry in Ukraine. She pursued her passion for battery research, leading her to her current role as a PhD student at Uppsala University, where she focuses on understanding the aging process of batteries.

Anastasiia’s Favourite Research Experiment Anastasiia’s favorite experiment involves using scanning electron microscopy and X-ray diffraction to study aged battery materials. These techniques allow her to observe the structural changes that occur in the materials as batteries age, providing insights into how to improve their performance and lifespan.

Life as a Scientist: Beyond the Lab Anastasiia values the collaborative nature of scientific research and enjoys engaging with the global scientific community. She is passionate about teaching and mentoring the next generation of scientists.

Anastasiia’s 3 Wishes

1. Increased funding for research: Anastasiia wishes for more financial support to advance innovative research projects.
2. Greater collaboration between researchers: She advocates for stronger partnerships to enhance knowledge sharing and collaborative efforts in research.
3. Improved public understanding of scientific research: Anastasiia emphasizes the importance of public awareness and support for scientific advancements.

Anastasiia’s Time on @RealSci_Nano Anastasiia will be taking over the RealSci_Nano Twitter account to share her research on battery aging and its implications for electric vehicles. Followers can expect to learn about the innovative techniques and insights her work provides.

Transcript

Hi everyone. My name is Nad Pranati. As regular listeners of this podcast might realize immediately, my name is Stenja. I’m your host today for the Under the Microscope podcast. And with me as special guest scientist, I have Anastasia Michinkova, who is a PhD student at the chemistry department at Uppsala University in Sweden.

And it’s actually a very special episode for me to host because I also did my PhD at Uppsala University and I’m also living in town. So we actually have the opportunity to sit here side by side and discuss some science. So welcome Anastasia and how are you today? Good day. Thank you. I’m good. And you?

I’m good. Thanks. Um, I think we are very excited for your science. So let’s Let’s start straight away. Um, can you explain to us [00:01:00] your research in the simplest terms possible? Sure. So we all know that right now we are pushing for electric cars because future is electric. We need to care about our environment and this electric cars.

We have batteries. Unfortunately, this batteries age and my job is to understand how they do that both on electrochemical and material level. Okay, so this sounds like a very important research. I actually have a question about this. So when you mean how they age, do you actually like age them in the lab?

Like, do you try to break batteries in the lab? So basically what we are doing is that we are taking, uh, batteries. Sometimes it can be from a battery pack of electric cars. Sometimes it can be from the provider. And then we age them in the lab in as close conditions as possible, testing conditions, electrochemically, uh, at different, for example, temperatures or different current rates.

So [00:02:00] how fast you charge it, you discharge it, which loads you’re pushing it. And then, uh, when they. either finish end of life, which is like 80 percent of initial battery capacity, or when they, um, age a little bit, depends on what we want to actually see, then we can actually do several things. So we don’t have to open them.

Sometimes we can do experiments on them as they are both electrochemically and in terms of material analysis. But actually the fun happens when I’m tearing these cells apart. Okay. Which is a lot of, which is a lot to do, but in any case, what we do is that we are extracting these materials from the cells and we assessing them in different, for example, locations of the cell and depending on cell, uh, how cell aged, which conditions were that.

And then I can study them at different levels. I can study it. Mostly I’m studying positive electrode. That’s my thing of my PhD. But. Yeah. Basically, I do it both electrode level, particle level, and even atomistic level, which is a lot of fun. Okay. So that sounds like, first of [00:03:00] all, you basically destroy things for a living.

That sounds very cool. And you use a lot of different methods, as I understand correctly. Is there anything you use especially much, or you like a lot, or? Like, what’s your favorite method to look at aged batteries? Oh, this is a very good question. I think, uh, quite universal. Two techniques would be SEM, scanning electron microscopy, and XRD, X ray diffraction, because you can, uh, in one technique, it’s very easy to access morphological changes and in some case changes in the structure.

And in the second case, it’s the structural changes. with the material. And it’s very nice because XRD you can use at various levels. However, I use a lot of complimentary techniques in order to access the compounds in the cell and how they are changing, or for example, doing something like X ray absorption spectroscopy or some sort [00:04:00] of analysis, which allows me to, for example, track how specific compound behaves depending on the conditions.

Okay, that sounds very interesting. So you’re basically looking at element composition changes and also structural changes. Okay, cool. This sounds like very interesting research. I have a question now going a little bit away from your research. I’m wondering how, you know, how did you get interested in this specific topic?

How did you end up being a PhD student in Sweden? So what was your career journey and what motivated you to study these batteries? Yeah, I don’t know how far back in history I should go, but I think the fun, like I went for a PhD because I really like doing research. I really like working in the lab. I really like to test my ideas.

And I think it started at my bachelor. Where we had like an experimental group. So basically, since the first year after our classes, we were allowed to just go to the lab. We had like [00:05:00] a advisor assigned to us and we were given some initial points. And then we were testing our ideas and going to like student conferences and doing some like small research with which at that time we were like, Oh, yeah.

Oh my God, we are real scientists. And then, uh, after I finished my bachelor, I wanted to move more into material science and I went for a double degree Rasmus Mundus one in France and another one Torino in Italy, and there it was material science on synchrotron and large scale facilities, which was amazing because as my first internship, I did it in Switzerland and I did it in sodium ion batteries.

And this is where I saw an amazing opportunity because I really like that people from so many different backgrounds can apply their knowledge to battery science. And I really like existing in a place, in a workplace where people have such diverse backgrounds. And it was very nice. And then, uh, for my PhD, I saw the topic on lithium ion [00:06:00] batteries, uh, for investigation of aging of electric cars, of batteries of electric cars.

And, uh, it was a perfect combination because I felt it applied enough for me to keep connected to the real world. But at the same time, I was understanding that I can explore a lot and yeah, this is how I end up here. Okay. That sounds very cool. So you’ve done research in many different countries so far.

Um, and you lived in many different countries. Sounds like a very exciting master’s program. I must say, would you recommend it to people? Yes, definitely. It’s, uh, I think right now it’s a cold for short, mama self master in material science, exploring large scale facilities and energy. Something like that.

Okay. I have maybe not that easy to remember, but we can put it in the show notes. So for our listeners that are maybe interesting. So it sounds very cool. So. What I gather from you now is that you’ve already gained research and experience from a very, I would say, early start of your scientific journey, and [00:07:00] you’ve worked on different projects.

Um, so now we’re going to narrow it down a little bit, and I would ask you to pick one project, just one that you liked a lot because you’re very proud of it, or it was very fun, something you want to share with us in a section we call in this podcast, In Another Words. Sure. So I think the project I am excited a lot about is a project that we finalized very, very recently.

And basically in that project, we are looking at electrochemical activity and redox activity of different elements inside the commercial cell. And we try to understand how their redox activity Activity is changing upon aging. And for that, we are using quite wide set of tools. We’re using exhausts, we’re using the rigs, we’re using TM, and I’m collaborating with many amazing people, uh, who are very knowledgeable and it was so much fun to put that all together and to try to understand what happens there.

So yeah, that’s the project I would [00:08:00] highlight. Okay. If you, so you use lots of different methods and now if you say. What in your field, what does it mean when you say you have lots of many different people? How, how long is the author list? So to say roughly, I think it’s not like 200 people. I think it’s something like 12 or so because it’s important that you have sort of, you have people who did experiments and usually where several people working on the same experiment.

experiment. And then you have beamline scientists, which help a lot. They develop beamlines. They help you to carry your experiment and support you after on your data treatment journey. Yes. Okay, cool. And what was your specific role in this project? So what was the part you were doing? Yes, so basically, originally, I had an idea that I need to study redox activity of oxygen.

And I was talking to my supervisor, like, yeah, I want to do this, this and that. And then she told me, Oh, we actually have a person who can do experiments. There is a risk technique. And I was like, Oh, that’s really nice. And I prepared like a small proposal, what we can do on the beam, on the beam time. And then we did it.

And then we [00:09:00] also sent our samples to additional experiments. And then we worked sort of to gather it all together to understand what happens where and why. I think it was a very tricky part and I learned a lot. Okay. Are you, it’s not published yet, as I understand? We have a preprint. Okay. So are you allowed to share what is the, you know, main conclusion?

Uh, one, I don’t know, take home message from the study. Yes, sure. So basically in our case for batteries, we have different transition metals inside and they do behave differently. And upon aging, their activity is reduced in a different way. And additionally, when we talk about battery active material cathodes, in our case, it’s traditional metal oxides and oxygen plays very important role there, which is not in use, but we have looked at different ways, how oxygen contributes, uh, to the charge compensation process and how it changes upon aging.

Okay, cool. I hope you will share this preprint with us, maybe. Okay. So interested [00:10:00] people can read up on it. So we talked a lot now about your research and what motivated you for your research and to work as a scientist also entails other things, parts of the job that are not just standing in the lab. Um, is there anything you like, uh, specifically about working as a scientist?

First of all, I have to share how it really sounds cool to work as a scientist. Because as a PhD student, I’m always telling like, yeah, I’m a student. I’m just a student. I don’t like doing something in the lab. I don’t know. PhD students are researchers, are scientists. Okay. That’s cool. That’s cool. This is something that I enjoy.

I have to say that I think when I started my PhD, my main thing were to gain a lot of experience, uh, to be in contact with many knowledgeable people, to travel, then COVID hit, but it doesn’t matter, uh, to do a lot of these cool things. And I think around that, something that I enjoy is, uh, Deep, meaningful scientific [00:11:00] conversations, after which, when you leave the room, your brain is so heavy that you feel like it’s just going to fall through you.

And it sounds a little bit strange, but I think this is something that I gain the most energy from. Yeah, I can understand that. So you enjoy also going to conferences? Yes. That you don’t find it too exhausting. I mean, it can be at times. I have to say that up to now I was very lucky because I always had like my talks in the first day of the conference each time.

So it was very nice. Like you’re very stressed in the beginning and you’re like, Oh, but then you give your talk and that it’s very nice because when you meet people, they know you directly. They’re like, Oh, you had this talk and it’s very easy to network. And then you don’t have to stress. If you have, I don’t know, talk on the last day.

So despite the fact that it’s usually, of course, conferences are, they can be really intense. And also your other work kind of don’t disappear anywhere. You still like on the breaks, you’re still in zoom calls. [00:12:00] You still try to sometimes like treat your data a little bit or finalize something or send, I don’t know, proposal for the beam time.

But I, I do enjoy this periods. Okay, that’s cool. So you were really a person who learns from conversations and from people. And I think there are great opportunities for this, of course, in science. And I’m happy that you are in environments that make this, this possible. So it sounds great. So talking, now we talked about these positive aspects, but of course not everything is perfect.

So if you had. things that you could improve in, in research or in your PhD research specifically, is there anything you can think of? So think of if you have three wishes, one could maybe. Yes, sure. So I think one wish for research world, but I think for the whole world in general is equal opportunities for people and no prejudices or precognitions.

And yes, So in this term, some more people can access research resources, higher [00:13:00] diversity, uh, in any kind of terms. I do believe that the higher diversity you have, the more amazing environment you’re getting around you. I think that’s for one. Yeah. Yes. That’s an important wish, I think. Yes. I think it’s also probably something that everyone is saying, but I just, I just want to repeat that once again.

I think it. Can be repeated. Yes. So I agree. I think something else is sort of transparency in science because in, in, in many terms, I feel that sometimes you don’t really understand, especially as currently as a PhD student of the last year, of course, you see people get in a scientific career and you can talk to different people and try to learn from them, but it feels like every.

path is very unique and depends on your previous background. I think something like transparency in these terms is quite important. And I don’t know how to put it, the lack, less politics in [00:14:00] between people, meaning that like, it feels that in science, there is quite a lot of rivalry. Yeah, yeah, I love that.

And this is something that I haven’t been affected personally, but this is something that like sometimes I see and like people around me can be affected. Uh, and yes, this is something that I think is just like, I, I’m a person who doesn’t like drama. So drama is unnecessary. Okay. And so you basically want transparency and career development, but also in decision making between people, even if they’re, how to say, especially friends, but it still stays on a professional and transparent level.

I see. Okay. I can get behind that. I guess everyone can. Um, do you have a sad wish? Yes, I think so. I think that more focus on mental health. And less romanticizing of, I don’t know, working 24 7. [00:15:00] I think healthy communication is also something that is very, very important. And I think this is something that scientific environments sometimes lacks, unfortunately.

And I think this is something that is really nice. And I believe it’s going to be improved because in between PhD students, we often talk about it and we often highlight that. I believe that there is a bright future. That’s very good. Also that you’re hopeful. And so you think there’s, especially among, let’s say younger scientists or scientists in their early career stages, that there is a lot of awareness and that you communicate and maybe support each other.

This sounds good. Yes. Yes. I think it’s very nice. And for example, for our department, we introduced something which is called a PhD onputs person, which exists for other departments as far as I know. And I think like these small things, when you create the safety net for your PhD student, and of course, this is something that should be also done for postdocs and for other levels, but I’m speaking for [00:16:00] PhD students.

And I think like this small things of, uh, yeah, the safety net helps people to stay in PhD path and get much better experience. Yeah, that sounds good. And, uh, very understandable wishes. Which brings me to, um, my next question, and I’m just going to explain for new listeners of this podcast. So, Under the Microscope has a partner project, which is a Twitter account called RealScientistsNano, and our guest is always are featured on the Twitter account or they’re taking over the Twitter account as guests for one week following the podcast release.

What are you going to talk about during your week on Twitter? So I think, uh, of course, I would like to present myself and explain my journey in a little bit more details because https: otter. ai

Show some transparency, [00:17:00] for example, making career decisions. And then I would like to go deeper into analysis of the batteries. So this is something that I’m very excited myself. And I think it’s very important to sort of understand how, how you can create a set of tools for such analysis. because batteries have a lot of different compounds and they degrade sometimes in a very different way and you can not test everything at once, unfortunately, but, uh, I think that this is something that I would like to talk a little bit on this, um, during that week and a little bit about PhD, um, Uh, in Sweden, how it works, what do we do, because we don’t do only research.

We also do a lot of, we have a lot of other responsibilities and maybe you share a little bit of activities during the free time. That sounds like a full week. Okay. Interesting. I am very excited to read more about it and to hear more from you. Before we close, is there anything more you want to say, you want to add now that you’re here?[00:18:00] Sure, I, I would say that I would be happy if anyone is interested in knowing something more about my research or more about PhD studies in Sweden or master programs in Europe. I would be happy to share my interests. Thank you so much. Thank you for speaking with me. And thank you all for tuning in and have a great day.